Those of us who are native Minnesotans think that when people mention “Minnesota Nice” they are paying us a compliment, noting that we are kind, open and welcoming. Not so fast.
If you google “Minnesota Nice” you will see that www.urbandictionary.com has a very different definition. The phrases “passive aggressive” and “back stabbing” are used. Ouch.
The Minneapolis Regional and Saint Paul Area Chambers of Commerce, sponsored by the Minneapolis Foundation just kicked off their 3rd session of The Partnership program. This program’s goal is to connect recently relocated diverse professionals to our community. Each session includes open dialogue about the challenges of transferring to Minneapolis-Saint Paul (http://www.minneapolischamber.org/thepartnership.php )
Some of the comments we frequently hear include:
-“Minnesotans will give you directions anywhere….except to their house”
-“Everyone goes to “the cabin” up north, is there just one?”
-“I’ve lived here three years and never been invited to anyone’s home”
We have so many cultural amenities, natural assets and an overall quality of life here in the Twin Cities. However, if our companies are recruiting talented people, only for them to feel alone and isolated when not at work, we will not be able to retain them.
If you are a native Minnesotan – think about your circle of friends, chances are you know one of them from kindergarten, or high school. We aren’t really giving newcomers the “cold shoulder” intentionally. It is hard to find time to stay connected to people we’ve know most of our lives. However, if you are a civic leader committed to maintaining a prosperous, vital region, we may need to open some doors. Have you ever invited a new co-worker, neighbor or congregation member to your home or “up North”?
On 50th and Penn there is currently a billboard, and I discovered it was created by students at Washburn High School. (to promote inclusion and acceptance) Maybe their campaign describes us better: “MinneSORTa Nice”.
Hello Everyone!
I read most of your comments, I am so happy I am not alone. I though I might be wrong.
But I guess truth is the truth!
My statement is “MINNESOTANS ARE BACKSTABBERS!”
That’s all I can say.
My family business suffered from MN consumers as well my child at school with MN kids and teachers.
MN….Smile at your face and then go and stab,stab,stab you right in to your back.
How about sue happy ??? Wow…. you need to have family lawyer on the clock here! written reports how about that? they work so hard to make up so much bullsh…… They are so programmed with that not only that they brain wash their kids from kindergarten to do the same!
How about turn your statements around, and may be add to it some MN BULLSHT>>>>
They got me “sneaky Minnesotans” but world is round it will come back…….
I strongly believe Minnesotans suffer from collective borderline personality disorder. For example those who suffer bpd show a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation. Basically, when you meet a Minnesotan, there is a honeymoon period in which the person is overtly friendly and polite, and this is followed by episodes in which the typical North Star state native turn into backstabbing and vicious gossipping of whoever he or she perceive different.
Have to say since my departure on August 20, it has been very welcoming to where I returned. In fact, new neighbors are very welcoming – introducing themselves and welcoming one into their homes.
Minnesota is a different culture, unfortunately. For some it may work, but in reality, for many others, it does not. It is not welcoming when people you’ve known for years in Minnesota don’t pick up the phone to call once in a while, or don’t even call you when their relative dies who was close to you. (That I learned from a mutual friend, even though I had visited the relative about a week prior to his death. I never did get a phone call from his family members. Just strange people in the area.) I know of a woman in Minneapolis who was dragged to the area decades ago by her then husband who didn’t want to live in the Boston area after medical training. So, fast forward to the present time, the husband cheats on the wife after she raised the kids with him and catered to him, and wants to leave town when the house sells. Why leave an area after decades there? Because unlike other areas in the country, you just don’t form friendships in Minnesota or Minneapolis, not even after decades in the area. That’s quite sad. It is much nicer interacting with people who do not put up walls when talking with them. What’s more disconcerting is when those same people who put up the walls are those you’ve known for a few years, which is what happens in Minnesota. No doubt I was the ostracized one living on the 2400 block of Colfax when I returned in December 2010. Unfortunately, some people in a building and on a block, or a few nearby, feel they own the area. I really hope they are quite happy in their continued homes. Honestly, they are probably quite miserable, which is why they have to drink at the nearby bars on a regular basis. I am quite happy, now, too. And, after a miserable return to Minnesota for only 9 months, at least I know I will never have to consider living there again.
Mr. Falkner,
Don’t get your hopes up about the church thing. It will be more of the same. I decided to respond after reading your entry, and I’ve encountered similar experiences. Yes, it has been my experience that many people here will never admit to a wrongdoing. Even the current landlord “reminded” me a resident who has always “feared” me (really due to her paranoid schizophrenia) is still in the building (I returned three times). But, he never told her I was returning and to leave me alone. Of course not. I had to endure her verbal abuse when she noticed me outside. She should have been told I was returning, as if these people can’t admonish once of their own, but can certainly have no problem being confrontational with those of us from elsewhere. I’m leaving in two weeks.
There were times I was on the phone with city or hospital personnel and they would inadvertently disconnect the phone. So, they call back and say, “You hung up on me, in a sing songy voice so typical of the the area, especially its women.” No, I didn’t hang up on them, they did so, even inadvertently, but could not even acknowledge it. The pursuit of perfection here is so obvious, or it has already been reached years ago, that no apologies are ever forthcoming from them.
The dog incident. I would move out now. Of course the neighbor acted so damn nice to your face about it, then told everyone else, including the cops. You are the “outsider” having not been born and raised here, and lived here all your life. You are not a Minnesotan and never will be. So, you are blacklisted. I pretty much was blacklisted from this building by a few people since I didn’t suck up to their Liquor Lyles or Red Dragon culture and blasting music, and these are supposedly professional college degreed individuals. No, they are just the run of the mill drinking buddies from the Upper Midwest. So, they ostracized me, and then when the cops were called on a different floor neighbor (a buddy) over her domestic issue with her boyfriend (I was out the entire day and drove up to the scene with the cops already on site), I was told by a different tenant, “Oh, I don’t get involved in people’s drama.” Yet, this same individual and his buddies on the floor talked about me for months on end after I moved in. Then, when one individual learns from a neighbor across the street I’m leaving, she asks me if it is true. My response, “Well, news gets around.” She was taken aback by that response since she wanted to hear it from the “source.” Oh, of course, when it is public knowledge you are leaving, they change their tune. I’ve heard this years ago, too, from others who moved here for study or jobs, then left within a year.
I’ve been on a neighborhood blacklist (Wedge) for years. Many around here act is if they own the damn neighborhood, and resent anyone moving in from far away or businesses from other states (take for instance the Hustler store now on Hennepin.) Of course, these people in their arrogance say, “oh, let’s see if we can get the parking changed on Hennepin so that no one can park there and the Hustler store gets no business.” Of course. Arrogance.
In 2005, a person now sitting on the City Council, said out loud when she saw me in an SA at 25th and Hennepin, “Oh, I hope she didn’t move back into the state.” Of course she denied it recently. Even a few people on her damn block didn’t like it when I parked on that street, or for that matter, many people around here don’t like it when you park on “their” public streets. I’ve lived many places, but have never had someone say what that woman said about me in that store on that day. Yet, if you play the part well that you are not from here yet want to be a Minnesotan – so you suck up to the culture – you are in. How many people know that council person is not a born and bred Minnesotan? Not many, I’d bet.
The street party – must have been the ballyhooed National Night Out which Minneapolis boasts about having such great attendance. Of course. Around here it is the only way or time you get to speak to your neighbors. And, of course, the will say in their sing songy voices that everyone got an invitation. Oh, I guess they inadvertently forgot your mailbox.
I knew of someone here years ago whose New Jersey born wife was ostracized from the neighborhood. Her children were never invited to parties, either, by the other mothers in the neighborhood. Her husband had lived on the East Coast for many years. So, after 15 years here, they moved to the Southwest and of course were told, “Oh, what if you don’t like it here; what about the schools; you don’t have the U there.” Arrogance, again.
I should have never returned when I did in December 2010, but I did, thinking I’d give these people another chance. Same old s–t, I’ve discovered lately. Same BS. Same lame excuses. Same blacklists. Same old, same old. It doesn’t change. And, even the young people are like this, which is very sad. Oh, there are a few here and there who stand out, but they are usually those who have to deal with the inherent racism, too, being Native or some other ethnicity.
It’s not worth it – the weather, the people, the attitudes, the passive-aggressive nature, the walls they put up in person (oh, they are so different on email and the phone, even with people I’ve dealt with for years here). I have a few friends to visit from time to time – most are not from the area, however. But, I know it is not me since so many have talked about it for years, and still do.
Want a really good one. Some Minnetonka woman who was supposed to be a friend, and her family, too, just stopped talking to me a year ago. She even had her number blocked so that I could no longer call in. I have no idea why. When I called and didn’t get through, I thought it had been disconnected. I discovered a month or two later, when I tried again, it was blocked. I have no idea why. The last call her husband and I were talking about the economy, where I was living, how the job scene was, etc. He said, I’ll tell Mary you called.” Yep, never heard from her again. You talk about insecurity women around here – there are plenty of them. I don’t throw away friends, but around here, people are fair weather people. And, I’m done with them. I, too, have lived in a few states, and have friends in all those places – and we talk regularly. Not here. But, I suggest you and your family move out. You’ll be much happier.
I just read the article and some of the comments and thought that I would provide my 2 cents and perhaps vent a bit myself.
My family moved to a town just south of Minneapolis 2 years ago and I am currently ready to leave. There have been so many instances where someone here has been nice to our face and then turned around and stabbed us in the back.
As one example, our realtor promised to buy us a home warranty with the purchase of our home but months later had the bill sent to us. After 3 months of calling her and having her swear to us that it was a mistake and promising that she would take care of it but never actually doing anything we finally had to threaten to take it to court. She finally paid for it but only after treating us like WE had done something wrong.
In another instance, my neighbor’s dog and my dog got into a fight. Both dogs had injuries and we were both upset but we spoke to each and worked it out (or so I thought). We both agreed to be more careful with the dogs and we ended it agreeing not to involve any authorities. That night, to my surprise, both the police and the animal control officer were at my door to take my dog after a complaint was filed??!!?? So much for taking someone on their word. On top of it all, our neighbor must have added us to some kind of neighborhood blacklist.
Just last night one of the neighbors held some kind of street party. When my daughter asked them what was going on they told her that everyone had been invited to their party and that flyers were put in all the mailboxes. I find it odd that we were the only home that did not get an invitation. On top of that, not a single person came over to ask us to join, even while I was outside working on the yard.
These are just a few things that have happened and the list goes on and on. I have lived overseas, California, Oklahoma, New York and now Minnesota and I have never felt as unwelcomed anywhere more than I feel here.
We recently found a local church and I am hoping that we might find a different “personality” with some of the people there. Only time will tell.
I had never heard of the concept of Minnesota nice until today. From many of the posters’ comments, it seems like that concept is just as dubious as the idea of “southern hospitality.”
Wendy,
Thank you for those links. I’ll look into them.
Susan
Susan your experience sounds like a horrible nightmare. I’m so sorry living in MN has been so challenging for you. I agree, a lot more MN people need to be more hospitable, open, compassionate and friendly to everyone in our shared community. There are some jerks out there, but there are also wonderful people new to MN working to help bridge the culture gap.
There is a radio show hosted by Julia Nekessa Opoti called “Reflections of New Minnesotans” that airs on Saturdays at 2 pm on AM 950. There are lots of examples of strangers going out of their way to stand up for inequality and racism. The Star Tribune recently ran this feature: http://www.startribune.com/local/west/124859544.html I understand if you are leaving, but if you decide to stay – know that there are lots of great people here, so ignore those living in your building and on your block – there are lots of warm and welcoming neighborhoods throughout the Twin Cities. Another recent article featured how community is built, by the block through interaction and shared activity. http://www.startribune.com/local/west/124859544.html
I am sorry your experience has been so hard. I hope you soon find a community, here or elsewhere that you can truly call “home”.
I decided to make another post. Perhaps its therapeutic. But, I returned here in December 2010 to really give Minnesota one more chance. Or the people themselves. But, it has been hell. The hostility. I just open my mouth, the accent is not from here, and people have their hatred, except those who are not from here. And, recently due to an injury in January, I received good care from concerned individuals. That was the other thing. Because of the culture here, no one would take the case since they just didn’t want to go after one of their own – for not keeping after the snow and ice on his property. The excuse was, “this is Minnesota in winter.” I had a neighbor in the building who told me in a fair amount of words how other “residents” in the building didn’t want me around and no one liked me here. There is another resident who twice now (upon two returns to the building – after doing grad work elsewhere) screamed at me and threatened me with verbal abuse. Honestly, its a badge of honor to be mentally ill in this state, and a few people around here have been allowed to remain in regular housing and harass good, honest, working people who contribute to society.
It’s unfortunate when particular block neighbors spread malicious gossip about an individual so that that person is run out of town. It’s unfortunate when a current city council person some years ago before election made the comment in an SA, “I hope she didn’t move back into the state.” I have never lived in an area like Minneapolis in Minnesota where if you don’t suck up to the culture or marry into it (and even that is fool proof), then you are ostracized, people – even hospital personnel – will act so damn nice to your face then talk behind your back. My landlord welcomed me back; perhaps I pay the rent and I’m a good, clean tenant. But, it is terrible when a neighborhood can be so hateful that one just looks forward to the imminent departure (six weeks) and this time will not look back.
Ahhh man! I’m a native Minnesotan, and I’m ashamed of my fellow Minnesotans! While I do have close ties with my best friends from high school, I make it a point to meet out of towners. I find them to be rather refreshing, because honestly a lot of the stereotypes of Minnesotans seem to ring true. I’m not a huge church goer, but I went with my parents one time after they moved – the sermon was actually about welcoming newcomer and making them feel wanted. You’d think people would have approached us after the service and been friendly, but not a single person even tried to talk to us. That is so typical of Minnesotans’ behavior, and it’s kind of appalling to me. I am one (of very few I’m sure) Minnesota who actually has more friends from outside of MN, but I can attribute that partially to college.
Thanks for everyone’s comments on this article. While this post was back in March – it is fun to see that people are still reading it. If people have suggestions (social events, organizations, churches, neighborhoods) that you think have been helpful to you, in calling Minnesota home – please send them. If we can connect transplants to each other and grow their sense of community – they will call MN home, and then perhaps become more welcoming to other newbies than the home grown Minnesotans! It is a fabulous place to learn, live and grow – when we have creative, talented people here – we need them to stay.
Thanks for the article. Yes, this is definitely a huge problem. So much so that I decided to write a blog about it: minnesotanicer.wordpress.com People here are very hard to get close to. We’ve lived here more than nine years now and it is still difficult. In fact, I ran into a man the other day who said his only close friend was a man he met (another transplant) when they were both standing in line to get their first MN driver’s licenses 22 years ago! In 22 years, that man is the only person who he has been able to form a deep friendship with. Likewise, my new neighbor down the street (moved from TX 18 mos ago) won’t even try anymore she’s so discouraged. Sad. Check out my new blog intended to encourage those who have moved here to keep trying or at least keep their head up. Minnesotanicer.wordpress.com
I lived in Minnesota from 1994 – January 2008, minus a few months here and there. I was in New Mexico from January 2008 to December 2010, then returned to Minneapolis. (I’ll be returning to New Mexico I suspect in 2012). Anyhow, I have 5-6 really good friends in New Mexico I met there – we would get together, at their homes, do things together, call each other, communicate – and still do quite frequently. I have a few other friends I met in New Mexico who now live in a few other states, and we keep in touch regularly. During that 1994-2008 in Minnesota? I have one good friend – a person I met in 2006 – and she’s from Germany, however, living in a northern suburb. I form excellent relationships wherever I go, but never have in Minnesota. And, I find that very unfortunate for a place. I live in the same building I left three years ago. I’m the outcast now, since many prefer those who are from the area. They know your not from here from the accent and don’t want anything to do with you. That is unfortunate, and these people are young. What narrow, closed minds. I, like Mr. Tompkins, decided after my regrettable return, that I don’t waste my time on people from here anymore. I’m too busy with my friends from elsewhere and my current obligations, and developing more relationships with those from other places who know the difference between lifelong friendships and just Minnesota Nice BS.
Thank you for writing this piece and I am very happy that the Chamber of Commerce and others are acknowledging this phenomenon. Since transplanting here, this has been a very difficult obstacle to overcome/deal with. At first it was very strange that we only made friends with other transplants, now 4 years in and having our circle of friends 95% transplants, we have given that up and changed to the more difficult issue. How to co-exist in the work environment with native Minnesotan’s, which seems much more difficult. Personally, I have found the old saying; “honesty is the best policy” is a very bad idea and keep relationships with native Minnesotan’s very light and “nice”. About 6 months here we were having dinner at a neighborhood restaurant; a couple next to us kept watching our table, finally the wife said “you don’t seem to have the accent, not from here are you?”, they had moved here 12 years ago from New York. We really didn’t believe her when she told us that we would never make friends with locals, after continuing to try for another 2 years sadly I must say, the second I hear the words “I from here”, I don’t give the person a chance. Fortunately for us we have a large group of friends and gather, visit and enjoy what this great city has to offer, but the unfortunate part, we miss out on connecting with neighbors, coworkers or anyone that is from this beautiful city. I do know “Minnesota nice” is real, negative and needs the attention brought to it.
I’m born & raised Minnesotan but go out of my way to get to know people who just moved here, and make them feel welcome. It’s a great state and will probably retire somewhere up the North Shore on Lake Superior.
I just tell everybody that -50F below keeps out the riff-raff.
Hi, I am Rick Sutphen, I am from Los Angles, Ca I have been here for almost 8 years. Its been a challenge to meet new people but I really dont care, I like Minnesota except for the skeeters. when I had decided to come to Minnesota a lot of people gave me crap mostly about the weather. I should state that I am well traveled I have been to all but one state Hawaii and I have been to Europe and South America and I dont mean just Mexico. I have lived in Las Vegas, Los Angles, and Germany. Minnesota Nice is ….. well really not true, its like global warming it should be called something else. I have noticed that for the most part people are genuine and kind but no more than I have experienced in other parts of the country. When I got here people would treat me with respect and were nice to me but it is true I am not going to anybodys cabin which I have found out that it is usually the family cabin that Mom and Pop bought years ago and its nothing like the cabins I am used to in Cali. With all that said I can honestly say that Minnesotans are good people they will come to your aid if a disaster strikes as long as it doesnt interfear with a Twins or Gopher game LOL. I have been pursuing a Degree in Emergency Management for the last couple of years while working full time and volunteering at the local Fire Department and I have had the oppurtunity to make some new aquaintences but very few of what I would call friends which I think is sad. But in reality its hard to open your self up and let strangers in so I dont hold it against Minnesotans or for that matter anybody anywhere. I can say this I am calling Minnesota Home and I dont plan to leave anytime soon so if you see me around say hi and be nice, not just cause its me but because it might make you feel better. thanksfor understanding
I also, have lived in many parts of the country (Texas, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, California) and find people in MN no “nicer” than any other parts of the country. In fact, less “nicer” than what you would expect. BTW the driving (etc. tailgating, random lane changing, speeding, etc.) is MUCH worse than it should be. LOL I thought Boston was bad, but at least there was a reason for it. Minneapolis? Sorry, but WTF
We moved here upon the “niceness” expectations. What a bunch of good PR. My advice- Move in, buy cheap real estate, fix it up, rent it out, and get the f*ck out of dodge.
At least- that’s my plan
I have been both a newcomer to Minneapolis and a newcomer to Austin, TX. My impression is that people in Austin, TX are generally more open and friendly as opposed to simply being polite. However, to be fair, I think that there are a couple issues at play.
1) Minnesota has a reserved culture compared to Texas. When I saw a play called “How to Speak Minnesotan,” everything became clearer! Perhaps this play should be required viewing for newcomers. Part of the issue may be that Scandinavian culture is known for being reserved. A Finnish friend of mind likes to say, “Did you hear about the Finnish man who loved his wife so much that he almost told her?”
2) Minneapolis may have a greater percentage of people who spent their entire life in the Twin Cities. If I still lived in my hometown of Detroit, I think that my time would be taken up by friends and family who have been with me for a lifetime. I’ve been able to make great friends in both Minneapolis and Austin, but it takes time, and the vast majority of friends in both cities were not born in those cities. Austin just happens to be a city where almost nobody is truly a native!
Still, it’s great to remind the natives of any city to be especially nice to newcomers, and it’s especially important to remind them when making eye contact is not a cultural norm.
Often, it seems the burden of effort is on the newcomer to reach out and get involved. Wendy, thanks for bringing up an important point: Resident Minnesotans also need to extend invitations to new friends and colleagues.
I’ve been a Minnesotan for just over four years, and at this point I definitely feel connected and welcomed. It was helpful to get involved in activities and organizations outside of work, but I also value the friends and colleagues who reached out to me and my husband when they could just as easily have kept to themselves.
Question for people who relocated here – how long did it take before a majority of your friends were from Minnesota and not other places? 5 years? More?
I’ve been here for slightly more than 10 now and I still haven’t hit the 50% mark …